Extension idea, prefix: PREF

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FlipFlop™
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Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by FlipFlop™ » 17 Apr 2009, 08:34

Extension proposal: SUP ADPREF

Format: INF PR<prefix>
Example: BINF xxxx PR[Netherlands]\s[OP]

Prefix for mainchat and pm display, can be used to show for example: IP, Country, Profilename, City etc.

When hub and client support ADPREF the hub can use it to show a chosen prefix received in BINF from a user, or choose to fill it with hubgenerated data.
The client will display mainchat and pm-messages with this prefix in front of the nick. Client adds a space between the prefix and the nick.

Would like to see this implemented in future clientreleases, i'll make a lua script to support it for current OPclients.

Best regards // FlipFlop™

Dj_Offset
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by Dj_Offset » 19 Apr 2009, 13:15

So, it's a nickname prefix?

FlipFlop™
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by FlipFlop™ » 19 Apr 2009, 22:11

Yes, but without actually changing the nick, just adding information before it, separated with a space from the actual nick, since hubside changing of a nick in my opinion is 'not done'. That's why I propose the usage of PR in INF, instead of just changing the nick to include the prefix.

The FCC in ISUP is not needed, just the PR addition to INF will be enough. Clients that will support it will show the PR before the nick, unsupporting clients will discard the PR-flag and just the nick will be shown.

The idea is to either show hub- or clientdriven information, like countrycode, or city of origin for example, but it can be used for all kinds of additional user information to only show in chat.

Dj_Offset
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by Dj_Offset » 20 Apr 2009, 10:12

My inner security conscious me wants to say NO.
My inner platform independent me wants to say NO.
My gut feeling says NO.

But, let me clarify my immediate objections:

* From a security point of view, one have to ensure that things actually are presented distinctly from the nick name. Otherwise a client could give the appearance that it has some "PREF" that the server otherwise would set.
For example if a server sets a "OP" for all operators, so userA which is an operator is presented as "OP userA" - Now, all of the sudden one have to make sure that this cannot be misinterpreted by userB simply setting the nickname "OP userB".

* The whole idea puts severe limitations on the UI. I think a client should freely be able to present whatever information it wants in whatever formation it wants.

* The puts no limitations on what kind of information one could put into the prefix. Some see that as a plus, I see that as a sign of bad planning. Country, City, Timezone, etc for instance, are much better as separate flags in the INF field. A client can choose to present these as it pleases, in my humble opinion.

adrian_007
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by adrian_007 » 20 Apr 2009, 16:22

i agree with dj. this kind of stuff can be placed in description (DE)
btw, some nicks looks very silly with prefixes like [RO][WTF][BBL][OMG]adrian for instance....

Pietry
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by Pietry » 21 Apr 2009, 10:39

I agree that these information could be added as separate fields in the INF. I would call this extension somewhat IRC ADC, where one could add those and more, like
avatar, ranks, assignated stars or whatever, in which the actual hub becomes more of a community and the client can represent all the information in it's specific way to become more of a social network.
Just someone

darkKlor
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by darkKlor » 21 Apr 2009, 21:48

@adrian_007
I personally despise the way the number of available slots gets placed in the Description field by some clients (not mentioning any names... **grumbles**). The user ends up seeing information in a place they did not ask to see it. If the protocol allows clients to add parameters as they see fit, and other clients must ignore those which they do not recognise, then I see no problem with adding a bunch of extra fields to INF.

@FlipFlop
On the subject of fields, it's one of the key ideas in databases that you categorise like data into separate fields. Even if you don't see the need for it straight away, it's better to create multiple fields than one all-encompassing field. It's easy to add more in the future and it gives you more options to manipulate the data, because you know the category that each piece of data belongs to.

I agree with Dj_Offset that the OP idea is bad from a security perspective; also, from a protocol perspective, a client could already do this based off the CT parameter of INF in the same way it does with the user's icon in most clients.

I do think that if such an extension were to be formalised, then ADPREF would be necessary. This would inform the client that it should check for the relevant fields in the INF messages.

FlipFlop™
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by FlipFlop™ » 21 Apr 2009, 22:01

Quite right Pietry :) and hmm.... avatars :D

Ok, first: the term Prefix might be ill-chosen, the idea is just to be able to display information in front of the nick, never to be confused with an actual nickprefix. Hence my suggestion to use a space between this item and the nick. This is something that is already used in hubs like Ptokax and Eximius, and can be valuable. If there are no security-issues, then why not offer the possibility?

Comments on previous posts:

- security shouldn't be an issue, a space is forced between 'Prefix' and nick.
- this is an extension of the UI, not a limitation. Right now there's the limitation that nothing can be displayed in front of someones nick. If: 'a client should freely be able to present whatever information it wants in whatever formation it wants' then why shouldn't there be a properly defined way to have the possibility to display something in front of a nick?
- adding specific flags (country, city, timezone etc) for additional info might be a good idea indeed, but won't offer the same functionality

HaArD
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Re: Extension idea, prefix: PREF

Post by HaArD » 22 Apr 2009, 02:05

The idea of attaching other optional data elements to a user is a good one but personally hubs that hijack the nickname to tell me 20 other things I don't care about are just annoying.... Let's not turn the nick in ADC into the dumping ground that description became in NMDC.

I chat with <Nick> not <[Op][Rus][VIP][***]Nick>

If the other information is useful and needed then client devs will find a way to display it in the GUI that suits their design and users will gravitate to the client with the best mix of functionality and esthetics.

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